2009/06/21
New Spec...?
So how could a new DW spec look like?
Obviously Blizzard wants us to go for Deep Frost as stated prevously. They don't want to make the mistake again from pre 3.0 where we were able to push DPS so high by speccing Hybrid 0/32/39
So it will be something like around this one:
0/53/15
With the last 3 points free for the new talent.
If UH or Blood will be better in addition to frost has to be tested.
What do you think?
Obviously Blizzard wants us to go for Deep Frost as stated prevously. They don't want to make the mistake again from pre 3.0 where we were able to push DPS so high by speccing Hybrid 0/32/39
So it will be something like around this one:
0/53/15
With the last 3 points free for the new talent.
If UH or Blood will be better in addition to frost has to be tested.
What do you think?
Speculations
The new talent for DualWield has risen some speculations. How will it work?
Some players think that the OH will not count for the damage, just the MH is important for calculatig the strike damage which will be cut in "half" for the OH strike.
But honestly, me and some other "Theorycrafters" think, that this won't be the way it will be done. This would mean that it wont matter what weapon you put in your OH. An ilvl 1 Dagger would do it for that. So it seems like, after the problems Blizzard spotted with our Procs using faster weapons, a calculation for OH based on the Strike you used and the weapon dmg of the weapon will be the way it will be done.
So if you strike with f.a. Obliterate, the strike will be calculated for the MH and seperately for the OH. Then, the OH damage will "roughly" be cut in "half", equaling the damage that you will do to the target.
In a formular:
x% of MH weapon dmg + y% per Disease = dmg1
x% of OH weapon dmg + y% per Disease = dmg2
dmg1 + (dmg2 * 0.5) = dmgTotal
Found this on the EJ Forums, thanks to the Author for that!
So what does that mean? Easy to say:
SLOW weapons will be more important for us!
Some players think that the OH will not count for the damage, just the MH is important for calculatig the strike damage which will be cut in "half" for the OH strike.
But honestly, me and some other "Theorycrafters" think, that this won't be the way it will be done. This would mean that it wont matter what weapon you put in your OH. An ilvl 1 Dagger would do it for that. So it seems like, after the problems Blizzard spotted with our Procs using faster weapons, a calculation for OH based on the Strike you used and the weapon dmg of the weapon will be the way it will be done.
So if you strike with f.a. Obliterate, the strike will be calculated for the MH and seperately for the OH. Then, the OH damage will "roughly" be cut in "half", equaling the damage that you will do to the target.
In a formular:
x% of MH weapon dmg + y% per Disease = dmg1
x% of OH weapon dmg + y% per Disease = dmg2
dmg1 + (dmg2 * 0.5) = dmgTotal
Found this on the EJ Forums, thanks to the Author for that!
So what does that mean? Easy to say:
SLOW weapons will be more important for us!
2009/06/18
Patch 3.2 Notes - DW gets it!!
Finally!!!
- Due to significant talent changes, all death knight talents will be reset for players.
- Blood Strike: The bonus damage this ability receives from diseases on the target has been increased to 50% per disease.
- Chains of Ice: Now reduces movement by 95% instead of 100%. The main effect of this change will be that targets of Chains of Ice will not have to re-issue a movement command to continue moving.
- Frost Presence: 10% bonus health reduced to 6% bonus stamina.
- Frost Strike: This ability can now be dodged, parried, or blocked. Weapon damage bonus reduced to 55%, down from 60%.
- Icebound Fortitude: Cooldown increased to 2 minutes.
- Talents
- Blood
- Dancing Rune Weapon: This ability now has a fixed duration of 12 seconds (which can still be modified by its glyph) and a fixed cost of 60 runic power.
- Veteran of the Third War: Stamina bonus reduced to 1/2/3%.
- Frost
- Blood of the North: Reduced to a 3-point talent. Increases Blood Strike and Frost Strike damage by 5/10/15%. There is now a 33/66/100% chance whenever you hit with Blood Strike or Pestilence that the Blood Rune will become a Death Rune when it activates.
- Lichborne: Duration reduced to 10 seconds, and cooldown reduced to 2 minutes.
- Threat of Thassarian: New 3-point talent. When dual-wielding, your Death Strikes, Obliterates, Plague Strikes, Blood Strikes and Frost Strikes have a 30/60/100% chance to also deal damage with your off-hand weapon. Off-hand strikes are roughly one half the effect of the original strike.
- Toughness: This talent now grants 2/4/6/8/10% armor instead of 3/6/9/12/15%, placing it in line with similar abilities of other classes.
- Unholy
- Desecration: This talent has been reduced to 2 points for 25/50% snare and no longer increases damage done by the death knight. It has also been moved one tier earlier in the tree and its spell effect has been made more transparent.
- Desolation: New talent. This talent is in the position formerly occupied by Desecration. It causes Blood Strikes to increase all damage the death knight deals by 1/2/3/4/5% for 12 seconds.
- Scourge Strike: Weapon damage bonus reduced to 40%, down from 45%. Damage increased by 10% per disease on the target, down from 11%.
- Summon Gargoyle: The gargoyle now flies lower to the ground, making it susceptible to melee attacks. This ability now has a fixed duration of 30 seconds and a fixed cost of 60 runic power.
- Unholy Blight: This talent has been redesigned. It no longer deals damage to nearby targets. Instead, when you deal damage with Death Coil, the target will take periodic damage for 10 seconds equal to 30% of the damage done by Death Coil. This damage accumulates in the same way as Ignite and Deep Wounds.
2009/05/22
New DW idea
Just wanted to give this one a shot:
DW Unholy DPS - ElitistJerks
Looks pretty interesting, I might give it a try... but surely I am lacking of the Ulduar equip because I am going for Blood ArP. But I may also wait for the next major patch, where DW will get its update...
I changed my second talent spec to 0/13/58 and if the raid is comfortable with it, I am going to try it with my oldschool DW-gear from Naxx ^^
Anyone tried this DW Unholy build out?
DW Unholy DPS - ElitistJerks
Looks pretty interesting, I might give it a try... but surely I am lacking of the Ulduar equip because I am going for Blood ArP. But I may also wait for the next major patch, where DW will get its update...
I changed my second talent spec to 0/13/58 and if the raid is comfortable with it, I am going to try it with my oldschool DW-gear from Naxx ^^
Anyone tried this DW Unholy build out?
2009/05/21
Update on DW
Ghostcrawler posted a statement after a user posted his concerns about DualWield... here you go, short and painless:
"Next major patch."
Source - Offical Forums
"Next major patch."
Source - Offical Forums
2009/04/18
DW Explanation
So another Bluepost for DW... great that they are telling us now that they wanted to stop DW completely before redoing it.
Dual-Wield spec nerf
"This is one of those categories, like the Conflag nerf, that we feel like you have options. We needed to kill the DW spec where you pretty much ignore weapons and just try and proc big spells. That was not the DW DK style we wanted. We felt like we had a choice between OP DW DKs and no DW DKs and thought the second was a more acceptable risk.
As we have explained, one of our ideas long term is to give Frost a couple of DW talents. It might not take much more than "Your Frost Striks and Oblits now hit with two weapons." Having 3 tanking and PvP trees is challenging enough. Expanding that matrix by also having DW Blood PvP and DW Unholy tanking gets to the insane level. But having DW Frost PvP, DW Frost PvE and DW Frost tanking (only) may be more manageable. We are not at all sure if this is the approach we will use, but it's an idea.
DKs were overpowered in a few ways. Fixing that was more important thank keeping DW at equal dps to 2H. That does not mean we have given up on DW for DKs in the same way that we no longer support 2H for Enhancement shamans.
We would not turn Frost into a DW tree. We would just make sure all DW DKs were Frost. And again, this is just an idea. We may reject it for some reason. As I have said many times, we want DKs to be a class that uses 2H or DW. We do not want DW to dominate, as it typically does in classes that have that option."
Dual-Wield spec nerf
"This is one of those categories, like the Conflag nerf, that we feel like you have options. We needed to kill the DW spec where you pretty much ignore weapons and just try and proc big spells. That was not the DW DK style we wanted. We felt like we had a choice between OP DW DKs and no DW DKs and thought the second was a more acceptable risk.
As we have explained, one of our ideas long term is to give Frost a couple of DW talents. It might not take much more than "Your Frost Striks and Oblits now hit with two weapons." Having 3 tanking and PvP trees is challenging enough. Expanding that matrix by also having DW Blood PvP and DW Unholy tanking gets to the insane level. But having DW Frost PvP, DW Frost PvE and DW Frost tanking (only) may be more manageable. We are not at all sure if this is the approach we will use, but it's an idea.
DKs were overpowered in a few ways. Fixing that was more important thank keeping DW at equal dps to 2H. That does not mean we have given up on DW for DKs in the same way that we no longer support 2H for Enhancement shamans.
We would not turn Frost into a DW tree. We would just make sure all DW DKs were Frost. And again, this is just an idea. We may reject it for some reason. As I have said many times, we want DKs to be a class that uses 2H or DW. We do not want DW to dominate, as it typically does in classes that have that option."
Armor Penetration
So, Ghostcrawler told us how this works:
"Okay, here is a fairly technical explanation we put together for how armor pen works.
We didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against low armor targets, like it had been in BC. We also didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against high armor targets.
So, we decided on a system where there is a cap on how much armor the Armor Penetration Rating can be applied to. So, the first X armor on the target is reduced by the percentage listed in the Armor Penetration Rating tooltip, and all armor past that X is unaffected. Another way of understanding that is we multiply the percentage in the tooltip times the minimum of the two values: the cap, and the amount of armor on the target after all other modifiers.
Computing the cap is a little tricky unless you are already familiar with how World of Warcraft armor works. There is an armor constant we’ll call C.
C is derived as follows (in some pseudocode):
If (level<60)
C=400+85*targetlevel
Else
C=400+85*targetlevel+4.5*85*(targetlevel-59)
For a level 80 target, C=15232.5.
For a level 83, C=16635.
The cap for Armor Penetration then is: (armor + C)/3.
A level 80 warrior creature has 9729 armor. C=15232.5. So, the cap is (9729+15232.5)/3=8320.5. Let’s say a player has 30% armor penetration from armor penetration rating and no other modifiers that complicate the calculation (talents, Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, etc.). The game chooses the minimum of 8320.5 and 9729, so 8320.5. That is multiplied by 30% = 2496.15, and so that much armor is ignored. The effective armor on the target is 7232.85 (9729-2496.15). From a player point of view, the armor penetration rating didn’t ignore the full 30%, but instead ignored 25.66%. (85.5% as effective as expected).
These equations should help you be able to test and verify that Armor Penetration Rating is working correctly and as we designed. The tooltip is not actually inaccurate, as it states: “Enemy armor reduced by up to 30.00%.” That "up to" is key.
Please be sure to test without any other effects which modify the armor calculation (Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, Mace Specialization, etc.) as they may involve other systems that add additional complexity to the calculation."
"Okay, here is a fairly technical explanation we put together for how armor pen works.
We didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against low armor targets, like it had been in BC. We also didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against high armor targets.
So, we decided on a system where there is a cap on how much armor the Armor Penetration Rating can be applied to. So, the first X armor on the target is reduced by the percentage listed in the Armor Penetration Rating tooltip, and all armor past that X is unaffected. Another way of understanding that is we multiply the percentage in the tooltip times the minimum of the two values: the cap, and the amount of armor on the target after all other modifiers.
Computing the cap is a little tricky unless you are already familiar with how World of Warcraft armor works. There is an armor constant we’ll call C.
C is derived as follows (in some pseudocode):
If (level<60)
C=400+85*targetlevel
Else
C=400+85*targetlevel+4.5*85*(targetlevel-59)
For a level 80 target, C=15232.5.
For a level 83, C=16635.
The cap for Armor Penetration then is: (armor + C)/3.
A level 80 warrior creature has 9729 armor. C=15232.5. So, the cap is (9729+15232.5)/3=8320.5. Let’s say a player has 30% armor penetration from armor penetration rating and no other modifiers that complicate the calculation (talents, Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, etc.). The game chooses the minimum of 8320.5 and 9729, so 8320.5. That is multiplied by 30% = 2496.15, and so that much armor is ignored. The effective armor on the target is 7232.85 (9729-2496.15). From a player point of view, the armor penetration rating didn’t ignore the full 30%, but instead ignored 25.66%. (85.5% as effective as expected).
These equations should help you be able to test and verify that Armor Penetration Rating is working correctly and as we designed. The tooltip is not actually inaccurate, as it states: “Enemy armor reduced by up to 30.00%.” That "up to" is key.
Please be sure to test without any other effects which modify the armor calculation (Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, Mace Specialization, etc.) as they may involve other systems that add additional complexity to the calculation."
2009/04/15
2009/04/04
Blue Post PTR
Newest Bluepost on the DualWield Problem:
We want both dual wielding and 2-handers to be viable for Death Knights, balancing both of these inside each tree has been exceptionally challenging and caused an issue or two. If we have to make it so DKs have one type of fighting, it will be the 2-handers.
We are considering something like making the frost tree the dual-wield tree, so some frost specific abilities would hit with both weapons through that tree only, and then have unholy/blood as 2-hand focused. Nothing is set in stone though.
Great, I don't know what they test or how they test, but DW is far away from being viable on the PTR now. It really is a mysterium to me how Blizzard is testing... we will never understand it.
As for that bluepost, I am surprised they picked up my idea I came up with months ago. The problem are the talent trees, so take one and transform it into a DW tree and seperate the talents for DW from Twohand.
If Blizzard would only listen a bit to some experienced players...
We want both dual wielding and 2-handers to be viable for Death Knights, balancing both of these inside each tree has been exceptionally challenging and caused an issue or two. If we have to make it so DKs have one type of fighting, it will be the 2-handers.
We are considering something like making the frost tree the dual-wield tree, so some frost specific abilities would hit with both weapons through that tree only, and then have unholy/blood as 2-hand focused. Nothing is set in stone though.
Great, I don't know what they test or how they test, but DW is far away from being viable on the PTR now. It really is a mysterium to me how Blizzard is testing... we will never understand it.
As for that bluepost, I am surprised they picked up my idea I came up with months ago. The problem are the talent trees, so take one and transform it into a DW tree and seperate the talents for DW from Twohand.
If Blizzard would only listen a bit to some experienced players...
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